Curse

freekedoutfish · Oct 16, 2007, 11:32 AM // 11:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faer

Revert the AI to the way it was before they nerfed it into the ground to make HM seem challenging in comparison to the new "Normal" Mode.

Done?

TBH I think if we had 3 difficulities, it would just confuse people and make life very, very, very hard to find a PUG.

We still have people ingame who dont even know what HM and NM is. To add a middle one would just make it worse.

Its also hard enouh finding HM teams. To then be asked to find EM, NM and HM teams would be insain!!

Plus then how would the drops work?

You get no rare drops and very little gold in EM.
You get some rare drops and some gold in NM.
You get more rare drops and more gold in HM.

It would just make the entire thing far too confusing to have to handle 3 hard settings and fing pugs for all 3.

Imagine what party search would look like with that!

Exterminate all · Oct 16, 2007, 11:34 AM // 11:34

/signed.

I like this idea, I hope they can change it back to the old NM.

You used to be able to say, farm vermin before the update. Now, the vermin farm is too hard on HM and too easy on NM.

/signed

Effendi Westland · Oct 16, 2007, 02:15 PM // 14:15

The dumbing down of AI in NM when HM was released served no purpose. Bring back the old AI !

Antheus · Oct 16, 2007, 03:03 PM // 15:03

But EM is too easy, and NM is too hard, why is there nothing in between.

I want an analogue scale between 0 and infinity that I can tune to exactly my difficulty.

This way, if I get wiped at difficulty 7.6456321345234938701256, I can turn the dial to 7.645632134523493870117 and have it done more easily.

Darkobra · Oct 16, 2007, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferret

/Not Signed

There are still areas of normal mode that can wipe you out easy enough. If you want more of a challenge, go to hard mode, that is why it was introduced.
We dont have 'easy' and 'hard', but normal and hard modes.

Another reason i think some areas of normal mode were made easier is that it is not actually easy for everyone and with a lot of the experienced player base going off to hard mode, it allowed those that were left behind to still accomplish the missions and areas, etc.

The two areas you mentioned were never that difficult in the first place, so yes, they will be easier now, but more difficult areas that often wiped parties are now more managable to the newer, less experienced player base (which was the general idea of the changes).

A perfect logic and explanation.

the_jos · Oct 16, 2007, 06:35 PM // 18:35

While a change in AI on normal mode would be a possible solution, this would cause problems for some players.

I don't agree on this for several reasons.

First of all, this thread was started with the introduction of Hard Mode.
At that time, the difference between the 'old' and 'current' AI was more obvious for players than now.
The old AI was also not always there, it was the result from earlier changes (part of it the anti-AoE nerf).
That's a part people seem to forget.

Second, while people might find NM easy, a lot of others don't.
People still ask advice on how to handle certain situations in NM.
I also know people that don't play very often and find NM hard/too challenging.

Third, there is something called experience.
Part of it is gained by playing a lot, part of it is playing at an other 'level'.
When I started playing and was my previous guild, missions seemed very hard.
Over time, I improved, till the point were I had finished Proph, Factions and NF on several characers. Even the harder missions like THK, Hell's, Eternal Grove, Gyala etc were not that hard anymore (I even started helping PuGs on those missions at some time).

Next, I got in my current guild.
Being in a more serious guild than my previous one, my builds and gameplay improved.
I also learned more about team builds and positioning (we did play some PvP at that time, also helping).
When HM was introduced, we started to focus on that.
Done most of the game in HM now, both missions and vanquishing.

When I play NM now with friends, it seems easy.
This has little to do with the actual difficulty and a lot with my increased experience.

The main problem would be when you feel HM is too difficult an NM is too easy.
However, I don't think it's fair to state all are more difficult.
Take for example the last couple of missions in Prophecies.
Those are not that much harder in HM compared to NM.
It's the earlier missions that are the real challenge in HM, according to my experience.
Or certain missions that were already hard in NM, like Eternal Grove.

I know a lot of guildies used to determine what they wanted to do and then decide on HM or NM.
Walking to town in not too hard area while you need SS/LB points: HM.
Area to hard, in a hurry, no need for the points: NM.

I think the balance between HM and NM is fine, giving good challenge in HM while not being too difficult for starters on NM.

Saphrium · Oct 16, 2007, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Sorry, I won't support farmers just because they think solo in HM is too hard and not satisfied with NM drops.

Master Ketsu · Oct 16, 2007, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Difficulty is pretty relative to the player. Their are players who still complain about "normal mode" being too hard, and their are pvp players like me that see PvE "Normal mode" as "Very easy mode" and Hard mode as "Easy mode".

Anet has done enough with the seperation IMO. Hard mode is not borked their are other things that need more attention then this.

Its unreasonable to expect Anet to lower their game down to your specific level of n00bancy or raise it to your level of uberness.

HawkofStorms · Oct 16, 2007, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

Difficulty is pretty relative to the player. Their are players who still complain about "normal mode" being too hard, and their are pvp players like me that see PvE "Normal mode" as "Very easy mode" and Hard mode as "Easy mode".

Anet has done enough with the seperation IMO. Hard mode is not borked their are other things that need more attention then this.

Its unreasonable to expect Anet to lower their game down to your specific level of n00bancy or raise it to your level of uberness.

Exactly. You can't please everybody. Each specific zone or mission is a different difficult and eventually every player should be able to find SOMETHING in the GW universe that interests them and their skill level.

Darkobra · Oct 16, 2007, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

Difficulty is pretty relative to the player. Their are players who still complain about "normal mode" being too hard, and their are pvp players like me that see PvE "Normal mode" as "Very easy mode" and Hard mode as "Easy mode".

Anet has done enough with the seperation IMO. Hard mode is not borked their are other things that need more attention then this.

Its unreasonable to expect Anet to lower their game down to your specific level of n00bancy or raise it to your level of uberness.

Because PVP obviously has everything to do with PVE. Skill is relative to a player and their abilities. Not what they decide to play in the game.

gloria vander belt · Oct 16, 2007, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Hard Mode is there for a reaso, can do hard mode? or dont like it? then u cant do or a challenge and or dont like 1.

/not signed

and did u think GW seems that much more easier becuase ur are more experienced? or ur not using PUG's?
honestly go to Hells precipe PUG up and tell me Normal Mode isnt a challenge.
Take heros and henchies, well maybe its no longer a challenge, but remeber us who use hero's and henchies find it easy because were with ubber players, not noobs who fail to heal or cant tank properly

again /not signed

hell get Eye of the North or factions man...factions timed missions can be a fun, expecially when u gotta beat a mission in certain time.

i see Normal Mode as Normal and i see Hard Mode as Hard(sometimes insuffirable)

the_jos · Oct 16, 2007, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Quote:

Because PVP obviously has everything to do with PVE. Skill is relative to a player and their abilities. Not what they decide to play in the game.

It's the development of that skill and abilities where PvP and PvE are very different.
Please consider when reading the next part that I'm a 99% PvE player.

When I meet a decent GvG/HA player, I know he has certain abilities the vast majority of the PvE players lacks.
It starts with simple things like the ability to play in and as a team, not an individual. They have better (most of the time) communication skills.
Furtermore, positioning. Not only for himself, but also for the rest of the team.
Battlefield awareness. Decent knowledge of own skills and the opponent skills.
Seeing the potential or failure in a certain team build. Dedication to achieve a goal.
How do I know this?
Because the GvG/HA environment demands development abilities like those to be successfull in that part of the game.
Running gimmic/FotM builds can be part of that, but still require some abilities like good communication, practiced builds and team positioning to be successfull.
Put 8 random inexperienced people with the best FotM against a decent GvG/HA guild team with an average build and the FotM team would still lose.

You can find those abilities in PvE players.
However, the environment does not demand them to develop those and most guilds also don't.
PvE guilds that demand people to team and practice, invent builds, play them till they know them by hearth, improving them along the way, are very rare.

This is something many people tend to forget when comparing PvE with PvP players.

elektra_lucia · Oct 16, 2007, 09:45 PM // 21:45

/notsigned

: ]

Solas · Oct 16, 2007, 10:20 PM // 22:20

didnt they only dumb down the ai in >lv.20 areas?
i have noticed that ican easily c-space through most of nf without any real need for concentration. just tought i was good:P. but yeah, HM is a step up, just gotta try ot make the jump i guess.

yeah some of the timed missions can be fun, also greatly relieving when you beat masters with 2s to spare

Master Ketsu · Oct 16, 2007, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkobra

Because PVP obviously has everything to do with PVE. Skill is relative to a player and their abilities. Not what they decide to play in the game.

You missed my point by such a ridiculously far mile I cant even refute you in any other way then to say "re-read my post."

Angelica · Oct 16, 2007, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

As I was totally sure I'd already said here....

If you want inbetween.... check Hard Mode Shing Jea Island.... or Normal Mode Realm of Torment or Fissure of Woe.

Just quit whining because Guild Wars isn't perfectly adapted to your personal wants and needs.

^^ I agree!
Some people will never be happy!

/Not signed.

reverse_oreo · Oct 16, 2007, 11:31 PM // 23:31

This cant be a serious post. Normal mode is still hard for many people. Hard mode could be harder. sigh.

Lysander Freeman · Oct 17, 2007, 03:12 AM // 03:12

Normal Mode and Hard Mode are fine as they are, I think. Hard Mode makes you use your skills more efficiently or you die. Normal Mode is better for people who like to enjoy the scenery, storyline and questing without too much danger of getting wiped.

Personally, I think Guild Wars simply lacks content. In larger games (in game land mass) there is more content with different areas being harder to successfully complete/vanquish/simply pass through in one piece.

I've just recently tried to get myself interested in Hard Mode, and sure, I've gotten my butt kicked a few times. But I also catch myself wondering why I'm doing it anyways. I'd rather have more and harder areas to explore than just repeating everything I've already done.

I'd hope they have more content as opposed to having to repeat everything in GW2.

Darkobra · Oct 17, 2007, 07:16 AM // 07:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

You missed my point by such a ridiculously far mile I cant even refute you in any other way than to say "re-read my post."

Or perhaps you missed the subtleties. Fixed your typo.

RTSFirebat · Oct 17, 2007, 07:53 AM // 07:53

Just my input..

There is no Easy Mode... its called Normal Mode

Hard Mode isn't too difficult, some mobs and bosses are a little bit unbalanced but that is about it.

/not signed.